Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Disclaimer: The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in the Our Culture, Our stories podcast are those of the individual hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policies or positions of the NAACP or any affiliated organizations.
[00:00:17] Sterling: Throwing a brother under the bus, you try to make it. Sterling and I are in slightly different places. I'm still in a place where I have to audition for things. Sterling, on the other hand, kind of work together. Wait a minute.
[00:00:29] Ryan: I submit to that.
[00:00:30] Sterling: Wait a minute. Hey. The Image Award goes to. Ryan Michelle.
Go and take it.
[00:00:53] Juliana: Hey, fam. Welcome to our culture, our stories, an official NAACP Image Awards podcast series. I'm Juliana J. Bolden with the NAACP and this is our inaugural episode, Image Makers with Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michele Bathe. Not only are they both acclaimed actors, the two are husband and wife and co hosts of the recently Image Award nominated We Don't Always Agree Podcast. Sterling and Ryan speak on the power of an Image Award. They get deep on the craft of acting and very real about their faith in God. Now let's jump in.
Welcome to the NAACP Image Awards podcast. This is our culture, our stories, and thank you so much for joining us. The first part, we're talking about the power of the Image Awards, representation and the craft of acting. I'm going to jump right into your relationship with the Image Awards and start with Sterling. In 2017, you were nominated for your very first NAACP Image Award, outstanding actor in a drama series for Randall on the Success. You were nominated among so many great actors and took home the win that evening. What did it mean for you at that time to be recognized at the Image Awards not only amongst phenomenal talent, but also for your very first NAACP Image Award, especially for a character like Randall, whose superpowers are vulnerability and as much as his strength, ambition and intellect.
[00:02:24] Sterling: Juliana, first of all, hello. How you doing? Thank you for having the both of us were really excited to be here. I will say this in all honesty, and I think I said it at the Image Awards. I thought my show had too many white people to win anything, first and foremost. Now, that being said, I was overjoyed. It's one thing to be recognized by the industry, it's another thing to be recognized by your people. I think my wife and I will both say that while we love this thing called acting and sort of inhabiting all of humanity, it means something really special when your folks recognize you and say, like, you are putting images in front of the world that we are proud of.
Ain't nobody in this house trying to set anybody back. We love being black. And we love the idea that we can be an asset, a someone that our community can be proud of and say, like, hey, look at what those people are doing. They are representing us well. And that's just in trying to represent ourselves as authentically as possible. Hopefully black folks say, like, you know what? These are people that we can get down with. It was awesome. Awesome.
[00:03:43] Juliana: Oh, thank you so much. And we absolutely feel grateful to have you representing us wherever you show up. Ryan, we wanted to talk to you about Silvie's Love. One of the things that was interesting about Sylvie's Love is that you were playing the role of Kate Spencer, embodying a black woman who smashed through glass ceilings and inadvertently represents a lot of us hardworking, unsung black women in history. How does it feel to embody a complex, strong and dynamic black woman that, you know, is often underrepresented?
[00:04:23] Ryan: That's actually a really good question.
First of all, I just. When I first read Sylvie's Love, I thought it was such a perfect example of a story being about the story, but also having so much room for what was happening at the time. Often, sometimes movies will be all about the struggle or the civil rights movement, which are important stories, obviously. But it was so beautiful to see a love story be told through that particular lens. So you were able to get both at once, which I think to me has always been my dream type of movie, to be in a movie that could live in that complex, liminal space, but also be very specific and still about this love story between these two people. And then obviously, the people that inhabit the world. And as one of the people who inhabited the world, you know, I think I really. I carry so many wonderful black women who have poured into me over the years that I think every role that I go into has those women with me. Whether or not it's about those type of women or not. I think I could be playing.
Could be playing anyone, anything, anybody. And those women are always with me.
[00:05:46] Sterling: You were one of those women, too.
[00:05:48] Ryan: Oh, thank you.
I had the privilege of living in a little town called Stamford, Connecticut, from nine to high school. And I was in an organization called Jack and Jill.
[00:06:02] Sterling: Heard of that one?
[00:06:03] Ryan: I was in the Stanford noir chapter. And for me, I know that there are a lot of controversies around Jack and Jill, but I will speak very specifically to my experience.
I got to meet a lot of women who were.
I knew them as amazing women and mothers, and then I would find out that they were the first in their field. They were the first in publishing Our proximity to New York, obviously, a lot of these women were working in corporate America. Publishing, banking, corporate this, corporate that. And, you know, they would show up at these meetings, and they'd show up at these, you know, activities with these little kids at Stu Leonard's or the. Wherever we were. And then, you know, you'd see them on Monday morning and those, you know, back in the day when people wore the tennis shoes and they have their heels in their bag and they'd be, you know, and it wasn't until I got to Absolutely, you remember, you know, and I heard all these stories of the things that they had accomplished, but for them, it was just every day. So the opportunity to play that particular role was incredible because I feel like those women really shaped that character for me because I was raised by them, I grew up with them, and I have been idolizing them since I was nine years old.
[00:07:19] Juliana: You know, since we're talking about idolizing women and your inspirations.
Talk to us. Talk to us about First Wives Club. The whole idea of sisterhood, I know, is. No, you're no stranger to the importance of sisterhood. We understand you are a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. I am an incredibly proud member of.
[00:07:46] Ryan: Delta Theta Sorority Incorporated.
[00:07:50] Juliana: So can you talk with us about sisterhood as it relates to your personal experience and sisterhood as you experience it as part of Hollywood?
[00:08:01] Ryan: The hardest part about that question is making it concise.
We got time, okay? Let it flow. I mean, you know, it's funny, my relationship with my sans is.
I'm gonna try not to cry.
It's probably one of the most special relationships in my life because of how much we've grown over the years. It's so funny you should ask that question because we have a group thread, obviously, and somebody just put in a text, a picture of us. I think we had just crossed. So, you know, we thought we were grown, but we were like, I don't know, what, 19 teens, something crazy. And we're all. We all happen to be the same age. I went to pwi, so, you know, for those of you who are like, what is she talking about? Pwi. A little bit different. Much smaller lines.
And so we were all in the same year, and we just look like little, little tiny children. And we thought we were so grown. And we have come. I mean, we've been to weddings, the birth of probably, what, seven or eight children.
We've supported each other through unfortunate passings of parents. We've gotten to know each other's parents and each other's siblings.
So I have learned a lot about myself and how I move through the world as a woman and the pieces of me. There's so many pieces of my sans that I emulate and idolize because they're like the most bomb, incredible women in the world. And I challenge myself every day to grow in the ways that they inspire me to grow as mothers. As you know, I have one sans who was always shout out to lawanda. She's also my fellow Leo, and she's always on time. And then, listen, not a day goes by and I'm not like, this might be the day that I finally make.
[00:10:11] Sterling: It to be like, l. That hasn't rubbed off yet. Not yet. Not yet.
[00:10:15] Ryan: But the. The. The desire is there because I know somewhere. Somewhere Leanda is. Is on it. She is on time.
[00:10:25] Juliana: I'm like, we. We all need a la.
[00:10:31] Ryan: Everybody needs a la.
She's amazing.
[00:10:36] Juliana: You're Leo. He's an Aries. I'm an Aries. Fireside. Luanda must be a Virgo.
[00:10:41] Ryan: No, Luanda is a Leo. She's an August Leo, though. So maybe that makes a difference. I don't know.
[00:10:47] Sterling: Get to your sisterhood in the industry.
[00:10:50] Ryan: And I also have to give a shout out to my sister. Everybody kind of knows my story that I have a biological sister. She's wonderful. She's my older sister, and she. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to have been a part of the sisterhood with Delta Sigma Theta and my sores and my sans, because it really helped me when I did meet my sister, at least I had something to go on. You know, in working through that relationship and helping to build that relationship, I'm really, really, really, really grateful. And then to move that to Hollywood, you know, it's. It's. It's a trip.
Because I think that at first, you know, there's all this. There's competition. Yes.
It's complicated. I will say that being a woman and a black woman in this business, I think we all, as I have gotten older and we've all matured in the business, I think we've all kind of landed in the same spot, right? Which is. We all. We got.
I don't. I would say that that was. That's a journey.
I would say that that's a journey, you know, because. And I will say, can I just be very honest? Because I think that when I first started, there was this sense of, like, I don't want to be known as a black actress. I just want to be known as an actress.
So there is this. And. Which was. I understood. And I still understand the sentiment behind that.
[00:12:30] Sterling: Speaking for yourself, or you think that was a pervasive.
[00:12:33] Ryan: It was pervasive. It wasn't. And it was. And it was actor, too. Like, there was this time in the early aughts where it was like what success looked like was not being labeled as a black anything. You know, I think even Morgan Freeman talked about it. You know, he's like, I'm not a black actor. I'm just an ox.
[00:12:51] Sterling: He's gonna see this.
[00:12:52] Ryan: No, he is. The last time I said that famous.
[00:12:54] Sterling: Last word, his publicist is gonna let him know anyway.
[00:12:59] Ryan: I think that we've all come to a richer and fuller understanding of both. And, you know, that we can still have the moniker of being known as a black actress, but that we have to then work to make sure that that black is the most full and inclusive that we can make it, and not. We have to shuttle that blackness or that moniker of blackness to be seen as full and diverse and as good as the white actresses. Right. Or the white actors. I should. I'm not just trying to make this about women.
And I think in that. That personal work that we've all done and the collective work that we've all done, I think it has led us to a place where we do have a much deeper and richer sisterhood in this business. And the last thing I will say is that when I first met Jill and Michelle, it was.
[00:14:00] Sterling: Say their last names.
[00:14:01] Ryan: Jill Scott.
[00:14:02] Sterling: There you go.
[00:14:03] Ryan: And Michelle Buteau. Okay, there you go. Also an Aries and a Leo. Come on, fire fool.
It was magic. It was nothing short of the most beautiful, warming, passionate, but healing fire that one could have asked for.
And I don't know how we got so lucky that the three of us, as different as we are, as different as we were, managed to just fall for me so deeply and authentically in love. I fell in love. I thought I had met all of my soulmates at that point. And then I met Jill and Michelle and I was like, oh, there I had. I had. It was like two new chambers in my heart opened up for just those two ladies.
[00:14:58] Sterling: So sweet. That's sweet. Good answer.
[00:15:03] Juliana: I'm not supposed to be doing the crying here. She's Ryan.
Goodness.
Thank you. On behalf of everybody who's going to hear you talk sisterhood. Sterling, let's talk with you about what roles have been most poignant or powerful, impactful for you thus far because you're so much more than Randall. And are there Any bodies, types of work that you won't even consider. So wherever you want to start on one of those. One of those.
[00:15:35] Sterling: Let's see. Sure, sure, sure.
I enjoyed N'Jobu specifically because he was somebody who embraced blackness. Sort of a Pan Africanist that sort of recognized that we're all in this thing together. That if you just label your brother as the place that you're from, you may be cutting your. Cutting yourself off from a more extensive brotherhood. Right. Humanhood, if you will.
I enjoyed Cliff from American fiction.
Just someone who had been in the closet for over 20 years and sort of insisting on living life on his terms, even if it is a bit messy to begin with. He's going to live his most authentic life because he recognizes that's the only way to have true happiness.
What are you thinking about?
[00:16:30] Ryan: No, I was just thinking about Cliff. If you wanted to. What did you say? If I wanted to deconstruct a sentence, you said something because he was a doctor. It was like my favorite line.
[00:16:41] Sterling: Thank you very much.
[00:16:42] Juliana: I appreciate that.
[00:16:44] Sterling: But. Okay, so those are. Those are a couple of rules that just popped into my head and I'm sure there'd be other ones, but. What was the second part of the question, Juliana?
[00:16:52] Juliana: It was about what, again, you've done fabulously. Talking about the roles that meant a lot and whatnot. And I'm curious, are there any roles, any type of things that you just won't do, like a man of God?
I definitely.
It's got to be interesting to be a person who believes in Christ and has Hollywood over here, your personal life and these sorts of things.
It might be easy to walk in your own shoes on a day to day, but sometimes people offer us work. I'm a person of faith as well, and my boundaries are tested. What about yours?
[00:17:38] Sterling: That's a great question.
I would say, first of all, it depends on the story that is being told. Because I'm not averse to being a bad guy if I feel as if the story is something of ultimate beauty and upliftment in the world. You know, my cousin told me one time somebody has to drive the bus in the Rosa Parks story. So, like, if I gotta be the bus driver, you know what I'm saying? Metaphorically speaking, whatever story, as long as I get a chance to tell something of benefit for us in totality, I'm not averse to that. I think, though, interestingly enough, I don't know if I've even mentioned this to you, Ry, and maybe I have in passing. I'm not interested in physical sexual harm towards women and depicting that on screen. It's just something that you have to, like, put in your body a little bit and carry it around. And I don't think I'm interested in carrying that around with me.
And I'm sure there's stories that need to be told, Whether it's the Accused or whatever the story is. I just. Me personally, I think I'll leave it for somebody else.
[00:18:52] Juliana: As a woman. Thank you. As a human being. Thank you. Same question to you, Ryan. How do you feel about certain types of characters and work being offered? Is there some work that you just won't do?
[00:19:09] Sterling: That's a good question.
What would you not do?
[00:19:12] Ryan: You know, it's funny because there have been things that I have felt so that. So. So I'm still Sterling. Slightly different points in our career, and I'm still at a point where I audition for things, But I.
[00:19:29] Sterling: Why are you on here to put your boy on glass like that? You making it sound like I'm not a man of the people, man.
[00:19:34] Ryan: Doesn't Mario say, cut that, cut that, cut that. I knew this. I can remember times throwing a brother under the bus. Why did you throw you under the bus?
[00:19:42] Sterling: You trying to make it sound. Sterling and I are in slightly different places. I'm still in a place where I have to audition for things. Sterling, on the other hand. Child, please audition.
[00:19:51] Ryan: Well, I am. I'm going for other people. I can't help it if I'm, you know. Anyway, you hot cotton.
So I.
I can remember auditions auditioning for things that I didn't. That did not feel right in my spirit and not necessarily purposely taking the audition out. I will give you one example.
[00:20:16] Juliana: There was an.
[00:20:16] Ryan: There was a movie that I read the script, and it was very, very, very, very, very, very sexual. The woman is going through a bit of a sexual awakening and revolution, which in and of itself was not problematic. But the script that I read felt like it was some talking sex scene. A little bit of talking sex scene. She drives in a car to the sex scene. She gets out of little bit.
[00:20:43] Sterling: A little bit. But not even you do the Red Shoe Diaries. What are you talking about?
[00:20:47] Ryan: But it didn't even feel like, you know, you gonna do the Red Shoe Diaries. You know, David Duchovny's gonna pop up at some point. Like it wasn't even that. It took itself very seriously.
I swear. God. And then I walked into the audition as the director. It was like, this is like he was straight out of Central Castle. He had an accent from some Eastern European country. Like, hello, is that. Nice to see you. How are you going to do this? I was like, you can't be serious. I was like, why am I meant to keep a straight face? And then, of course, you know, auditions, sometimes, they don't always pick scenes. They pick scenes where it's like, pick your leg up.
And then you gotta say this. And I was like, this. I am not. I was like, I am too much of a clown to come in here and do this audition. So I'm doing my best, and every time he's talking, I want to pee my pants. Cause he's like, oh, yes, this may.
[00:21:46] Sterling: Be racist towards Eastern Europeans, man. I don't know if this accent is.
[00:21:51] Ryan: It was like he made it up. I was like, he's not from a real place. Like, he is from Draconia. Like, easy. Yes.
You know, maybe you do more with the shaky booty. I was like, no, sir. Like, I cannot take you serious.
And there was a person in the room. I can't say who she was, and I can't say her name, but all I would say is that we went to church together.
Now, I was still going to. I was still. At the time, I was still going to a apostolic church, y'all. Not. Not church, but an apostolic, we speak up in tongues church. Okay? I mean, so I'm sitting here the whole time, I'm looking at this woman in the corner of the room, and I'm like, we praise the Lord together. And here I am, and he's just a devoutee. I was like, this cannot be happening to me.
So at the end, this man. And I swear to God, I felt so bad, I. I crossed my fingers behind my back because he was like, it's lot of sex in movie. You good with all sex in movie. And I was like, yes, yes, sir. I will be good with the sex in the movie. My hands, right?
And I'm sitting here in my. As the temptation say in my mind. I was like, I'm going to hell just for being at this audition, because I know damn good well. A, I don't want to do this. B, this is ridiculous. C, I'm sitting up here lying. B, I can't even understand what this man is saying.
[00:23:35] Sterling: I remember. You remember? This was before the kids were born. This is a long time.
[00:23:39] Ryan: Yes. Cause, you know, everything was still. You know, I looked at the woman before I left, and I was like, it was so good seeing you. See you in church on Sunday. And that was the Last thing I said before I left was, see you at church on Sunday. I think I may have said, praise the Lord.
[00:23:57] Juliana: Listen, as a child that grew up in a black Baptist church in East Oakland and sometime went to Kajik, I feel the irony of this situation.
[00:24:12] Ryan: Baby.
[00:24:13] Juliana: Thank you.
[00:24:14] Ryan: I have to wear a. So I was singing in the choir and had to wear a scarf on my knees if my skirt was too short. And I am sitting up here auditioning for the Booty movie. Come on.
[00:24:26] Sterling: Okay, anyway, so you don't. So you won't do the Booty movies. You don't do Booty movies, but the audition for it.
[00:24:33] Ryan: Cause I want everybody to know, listen, I can do it. I might not do it, but I can't.
[00:24:41] Juliana: Well, this has been a master. This has been a masterclass in discovering one's boundaries, and I thank you both.
And while we're talking about what we would. You better not apologize.
Even apologize while we're talking this. What you won't do has been the most amazing situation. I'm asking a question about what you would.
Okay.
Are there any biopics that either of you aspire to do?
[00:25:18] Sterling: Biopics? You know what?
I wouldn't rule anything out. I think for me, the biopic has to have very particular spin on it. Like, I think we've seen enough, you know, Birth to Death films that you. You need a little bit of a surprise or an angle on what exactly it is you're trying to highlight about a particular story or picking a section in someone's life, whether it's like Selma, which I thought was pretty well done. Shout out to Ava, because it's hard to just go from beginning to end and have a dramatic arc. I think the last one that did it, that really did it. Well, I would say his ex, as far as. As far as I'm concerned, I can think of that. They went from beginning to end. You know what I'm saying?
Even Lee, when he did Billie Holiday, I don't think he went beginning to end. He sort of mixed it up a little bit and tried to do some things. So with that being said, the blues.
[00:26:18] Ryan: Was beginning to end.
[00:26:20] Sterling: That's. That's one of the best movies ever.
[00:26:22] Ryan: Yeah.
[00:26:23] Sterling: Ladies singing blues. You can't beat that.
So I don't even know. I would have somebody they'd have to introduce. I've seen a few people. I get introduced to a lot of first black men to ever do this and that, and those are cool. But I also am interested in telling a full human being story. So sometimes they become a bit sanitized when you want to give reverence to someone, and I ultimately want to do that. But I think you actually do that more poignantly by highlighting the peccadilloes and the shortcomings of that individual and how they were able to exist, persist, thrive in spite of, or even because of those things that others could be labeled shortcomings in particular areas, but they're able to use them to their advantage. So no particular people, but in terms of what the story has to look like, I have an idea of what the ship shape has to be to be attracted to it. What about you?
[00:27:18] Juliana: Oh, folks are gonna love that. Yes.
[00:27:21] Sterling: Yeah.
[00:27:21] Ryan: It's a really good answer.
There is a woman. Her name is Nina Mae McKinney.
[00:27:28] Sterling: Oh, yeah.
[00:27:29] Ryan: And I have been living with. Working with her story for probably since I was.
We took a class, Black Cinema.
In school. Yeah. At college. And since then. And she was one of the first black film stars. And she predated Dorothy Dandridge. And so that's why a lot of people don't know about her. She predated Dorothy Dandridge, Lena Horne. She was right at the turn when movies went from silent to sound. And so she often gets forgotten in the conversation. When we talk about. Especially, like at the NAACP Awards, you know, we do our historical, you know, retrospectives. She often gets left out of the narrative. A lot of people don't know who she is. And I would love.
I would love that.
[00:28:26] Sterling: Nana Mae. Okay.
[00:28:28] Ryan: Spelled like Nina.
[00:28:29] Juliana: Say her. I hope nobody say her name for us slowly, one more time.
[00:28:34] Ryan: Nina Mae McKinney.
[00:28:40] Juliana: We are not gonna ever forget her again. Cannot wait to look her up. Thank you.
You know, both of you have really inspired me to ask a question about ensembles. And we actually had a viewer, Kevin Marshall Pinkney from Atlanta, Georgia, shout out to Kevin, wanted to know what's the best part about working within a great ensemble.
[00:29:11] Sterling: They become family. You know, you develop relationships off screen that become easy to mirror on screen. In the case of this is us, that is my family. We will be family for the rest of our lives. We went through contract negotiations together. We did six years of a show that we believed in deeply and not only just the story itself, but we believed in the people that we were doing the story with. Like, don't nobody talk about Justin Harley or Chrissy Metz, Mandy Moore, Chris Sullivan, Susan Collechi. Just don't talk about my family. Don't start none, won't be none. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's Is it. It's done. Forget about it. That's. That. That's my. My contribution.
[00:30:01] Ryan: We actually have a. We. You know, we have a little built in bookcase, and it has all of our family pictures, and there is a fan. A picture of their. The. Your. Your Pierce.
[00:30:13] Juliana: Not.
[00:30:13] Ryan: Not your Pearson family. You, Susan, and your three daughters. Yeah, yeah, right. They're nestled in with Amari.
[00:30:22] Sterling: My babies. I get a chance. Listen, I don't have any daughters in real life, but I got a chance to have them for six years on tv. I feel pretty good.
[00:30:29] Ryan: That's true.
I even think of it, I'm like, oh, look at Sterling's baby girl.
Yeah. You know, for me, the acting of it in terms of an ensemble is the freedom you have to. It's like.
It's like you have a. They're your safety net. Right. Like, if you fall, if you make a mistake, they've got you. And in that mistake, the most wonderful things can happen because they're so in tune and you're so in tune with them. And that is, I think, the best part about acting in general. And then when you have it, when you're doing it in an ensemble, man, it's like. It's like this untangible, unspeakable feeling of connection to something bigger than yourself that can only come about from incredible talent and incredible trust in each other.
[00:31:32] Juliana: You know, I have to ask you, Ryan, you said something so interesting. The safety net. Does the safety net that develops amongst the good ensemble happen? Is it something that has to develop over time, or is it, like, romantic chemistry? You have it or you don't?
[00:31:48] Ryan: I think it's both. And I think it's both. And I think it's one of those things that can happen instantly. And then also, like any relationship, sometimes it means more when it's been tested and won over time. Sometimes it means more when you're like, I don't even like you. But right now, in this moment, when we are, when they say, action, I got you. And I know you got me, and I know you don't like me either. But guess what? We are so committed to this thing that's bigger than ourselves that we both have agreed to put aside our differences for this greater good. And sometimes that can be.
[00:32:27] Sterling: Has that happened a lot for you?
[00:32:28] Juliana: Nope.
[00:32:29] Sterling: Just kidding. Go ahead.
[00:32:30] Ryan: Not a lot. No.
[00:32:35] Juliana: Listen, the church says amen. Speaking of church, we have a community member, Rosemary Davis Mobley, another from Atlanta, Georgia, seemingly, you know, compelled by how our political landscape is right now that we've been living through. She wants to know how do you stay true to your faith and integrity in a business and in a world that could be so corrupt? I know we've been talking a lot about faith and whatnot leading up to this, but is you have anything else to add to that for Rosemary?
[00:33:06] Sterling: What you got? Don't. Don't get canceled. Just.
[00:33:09] Ryan: No, I feel. You know what?
I have been so.
My combination of naivete, innocence, my good Christian upbringing, my desire to not get in trouble by my mama and daddy and my grandmother.
[00:33:32] Sterling: What are you about to get?
[00:33:33] Ryan: Has kept me safe.
[00:33:36] Sterling: Okay.
[00:33:37] Ryan: You know what I mean? Like that, that. That old school, like now, you know, you don't need to be going out there with no people now, you know, and also the naivete of, like, you know, just what people were getting up to.
[00:33:51] Sterling: Yeah.
[00:33:52] Ryan: When we were just. We. We were just so naive in a lot of ways to what was happening around us in.
And also, I think we both had a sense of, like, we were raised that we cannot do what we see our little friends. Do you see your little friends doing it? You can't do what your little friends can do.
[00:34:13] Sterling: Sure, sure. Facts.
[00:34:16] Ryan: And that's how we were both raised.
And we can parse out whether or not. But I know that it kept us that thinking, I think kept us safe because I don't think Sterling nor I has ever felt compelled to follow behind or follow the crowd.
[00:34:35] Sterling: Right.
[00:34:36] Ryan: Yeah.
[00:34:36] Sterling: I mean, like, it's interesting, I think, because, you know, we went to grad school for acting and we started in New York and then moved out to the West Coast. Like, the trappings of Hollywood that are so well publicized that people tend to care about on the news and whatnot were so outside of our periphery. We were just focusing on working.
[00:34:57] Ryan: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:58] Sterling: Getting a job, paying bills, paying back student loans, et cetera. Like, it was really. I don't think either one of us were really attracted to, like, the lifestyle that gets publicized about it. We just really want it to work. And so, you know, in addition to everything that you just said in terms of naivete and just, you know, God's covering just sort of keeping us away from certain things. It wasn't anything that we were ever really focused on.
[00:35:28] Ryan: That's true.
[00:35:29] Sterling: Yeah.
[00:35:29] Ryan: I will also say one thing. I was talking to a girlfriend about it because we were in New York at the same time, and I said, you know, when everything, you know, has come out now we have social media stories are coming out about all kinds of things in people. Right. And I said, you know, we were at such and such a place. We were there in New York when a lot of that stuff was going on. And she said something very interesting. She said, because it is obvious that people will come looking for us.
And I thought about that and I was like, she's absolutely right. She said, it is obvious that we have mamas, daddies, cousins, uncles, Some we can't go missing for a couple of days. Like we just walk through the world with a certain, you know, way about us that those types of people who are looking for those other like, like minds, right? Like minded people, they can smell it. And we just never have that on. If we had gone up missing, somebody was gonna call somebody and if somebody had to get in a car and drive from St. Louis, Missouri to New York or LA and find Kelby, let me tell you something, that would have happened. So I just. Yeah, I just think that I don't want to get too. Well, I don't care. I'll get spiritual. I do think that when you have a couple get spiritual when you have a praying grandmother. And I'm not saying that the things that happen to people is because they didn't have a praying grandmother, but I am saying that when you have a praying grandmother, when you have been prayed over by so many people and so many hands, I just think that there is a spirit. I think that's an imprint that's left on that, on people like us.
Where those people who are looking for those like minds, we are not the easy target for that. Nor were we looking for them. Sure, we weren't looking for them either.
So I just think it's like this sometimes because to Sterling's point, when we, when we were in New York or LA or wherever we are, you know, Sterling and I are the type of people that will be like, all right, well you know, what time is it? Because we got to get back home to get to sleep. Because we have to take care of our voice because we're taking care of our instrument. Like we're, you know, I'm the kind of person.
[00:37:51] Sterling: What you mean you don't be paying attention to no time? Right?
[00:37:54] Ryan: Okay. I don't pay attention to time in general, but I have a good sense of like, I gotta go to bed, I get sleepy.
[00:38:00] Sterling: You do get sleepy.
[00:38:01] Ryan: Okay, I get sleepy. Maybe that's it. Some people just don't get sleepy. They ready for the world. They're like, yes, party Ryan, show about. There will be somebody somewhere in the corner.
[00:38:10] Juliana: Sleep.
[00:38:11] Ryan: Miss the whole thing. Well, we did all this. This. This dirt. And Ryan was sleep. Oh, well, I missed it. Yeah, that's.
[00:38:19] Juliana: That's the trick.
[00:38:20] Ryan: Just get sleepy. Be sleepy.
[00:38:23] Juliana: Listen, I have. I have to get really, really selfish for just a second here. On behalf of me and everybody who's ever seen this right here, are we ever going to get a Ryan and Sterling show? Well, we sort of have it because we got your podcast, but. Gonna do a series. Are we gonna do. Are you gonna do series together? Any. A series, A movie or something. I need. I need some more.
[00:38:50] Sterling: So on behalf of all the people who would like to see something like that happen in the world, I'm gonna tell you it's probably not going to happen now.
Why? Listen, hold on, but don't get all excited. Let me give you answer.
There is such thing as too much of a good thing.
I love my wife. She's precious and the light of my life.
But absence makes the heart grow a little fond sometimes. And so to be able to have. To separate and come together. To separate and come together.
We have history. My wife and I have history. And I may have some pts from it, right? But I think we function best as husband and wife. As parents of Andrew and Amari, maybe we can do a season two of a podcast, right? But besides that, I want to make sure that this marriage is first.
That we. That this. This is first before anything that has to do with work.
[00:40:10] Ryan: I will just say that while I can't ever get enough of a good thing, I would love to work with my husband because I think he's one of the most talented actors, and it would just be an honor to work with him, which I might not know about me, is that I am a submissive wife.
I submit to my husband, who is the head of my household, and if my husband says that we are going to work together, I submit to that.
[00:40:50] Sterling: Wait a minute. Hey. The Image Award goes to. Ryan. Michelle, go on and take it. Go on and take it. You just won. Tell the people how you feel. Come on, black folks is listening. Let them know how you feel. Submissive. That's the best. You made him try to believe. You tried to make them believe.
[00:41:15] Ryan: They believe because it's the truth.
I don't even.
[00:41:26] Juliana: Ryan, I'm trying to figure out how to best support you in this moment.
[00:41:32] Ryan: This is just sterling acting. He knows.
[00:41:38] Sterling: Strange. Strange. Juliana. Strange.
[00:41:42] Juliana: You did not give her a strange.
[00:41:43] Sterling: A.
I just gave her a strange.
[00:41:46] Ryan: I don't know.
[00:41:47] Sterling: Strange.
Okay. Okay, that was good.
[00:41:54] Ryan: You know what?
[00:41:57] Juliana: Strange is a whole topic for a whole Other podcast, I'm gonna leave that alone. And you know, we have a couple of folks. We got Arisha Coffey in Orlando, Florida. We got Sarah Tobar in Chicago, Illinois to see what just transpired right here. It's so appropriate. They're asking, how are you able to remain so unshakable about your marriage as parents in an industry and culture that doesn't hold the same regard? And I know we've been talking about it. It's values, right?
[00:42:35] Sterling: Sure.
Listen, it is. I feel like before any fame or fortune came our way, we were husband and wife. Right. We were actors first. But then before anything big happened, like we were husband and wife. We were even parents really, before anything huge took off. And I think that there is.
I don't know how it is for you. I'm gonna speak for myself. Like, nobody really knows me better than Ryan Michelle Bathe. And I will never trust that anybody wants to be with me just for me. Like, Ryan has loved me since I've been a very pimply faced teenage dude. You know what I'm saying? Like, who's. I'm still weird and strange and she still loves me for that weird and strange individual that I am. I think we genuinely, you can see it on this thing. We laugh a lot. And a lot of people sort of underestimate, I think, the power and importance of laughing with your partner. Like, it's healing. I mean, it's really, really healing because we can laugh at the world, we can laugh at each other, and it's never, rarely is it taken, do we cross a line. Every once in a while, somebody has to say something to the other person, like, hey, man, quit cracking on me in front of all these people. You know what I'm saying? But for the most part, it is an acronym of love. Right. And I think, like, I wouldn't trade that for anything for anything. Like there's somebody that you can be your most authentic self with and they'll just be like, oh, that's okay. Being Kelvin, that's Michelle being Michelle. Like, I don't know what you got to say to her, Bernie.
[00:44:18] Ryan: Yeah. I think, you know, every.
Obviously people don't see the times.
They don't see all of it. Right. Because who can? You can never see it with any relationship, you know, unless it's your relationship.
And every day I choose Sterling and I choose us.
[00:44:49] Sterling: Yeah.
[00:44:49] Ryan: And it's a, it's an active choice.
[00:44:51] Sterling: Yeah.
[00:44:52] Ryan: And there are times when I look at my car and I go, I got enough gas to get To Tijuana.
[00:45:00] Sterling: Wow.
[00:45:01] Ryan: And then I can jump in the Pacific and try to swim to Hawaii, and I won't ever look back.
Then I think about the sharks. Then I think about the fact that no one ever swam in an ocean like this. And I think, maybe I won't today.
[00:45:19] Sterling: That's a real. That's a real love story right there, people, where I list the feeling, having the truth. I didn't even know if you can swim to Tijuana.
[00:45:29] Ryan: No, I said, once I get to Tijuana, I'mma jump in the Pacific Ocean.
[00:45:32] Sterling: I was about to say, then I'm.
[00:45:33] Ryan: Going try to swim.
[00:45:34] Sterling: Is Tijuana on the coast?
[00:45:37] Ryan: It may not be.
Then I realize how flawed my plans are. And I was like, I might just stick to the best plan I know.
[00:45:45] Sterling: Oh, my goodness.
[00:45:46] Ryan: This right here.
[00:45:47] Sterling: There you go.
[00:45:48] Juliana: I want to get on with the whole idea of speaking. You had an episode. Speaking up, speaking out. Talking about the relationship between art, activism, the importance of speaking up, what makes you able to be so authentically brave and speaking up, sharing yourselves in this way and using your. Not only using your platform for advocacy on your podcast. This is just how the two of you roll.
So how do you find the bravery, the strength?
[00:46:26] Ryan: You know.
[00:46:30] Sterling: I don't think you can be any other way than how you are.
Truthfully, you are. You are a warrior at heart, right?
[00:46:39] Ryan: Yes. And I'm always. What has drawn me to being an artist is the transformative power of art. And how, given that this is the naacp, that that has been at the cornerstone and the backbone of how we have moved forward as a people, has been through our art and our ability to synthesize our experience in song, movement, poetry, books.
And Nina, you know, Nina Simone said that that's what, you know, she talks about how sometimes she feels like as an artist, she has no other choice. I mean, look at Toni Morrison. Look at what all of the.
[00:47:23] Sterling: What.
[00:47:23] Ryan: Look at what they have done. And art ends up in the. In the. In the final analysis, art that does not move, change, and also speak to the current lived experience ends up being quite empty. But the art that is truly transformative and lives forever, I think, is that art that is able to be a voice and speak to the times.
[00:48:00] Sterling: No, no, no.
[00:48:01] Juliana: You go ahead, Stella.
[00:48:03] Sterling: Okay. I feel like Ryan and I are very interesting combination of people to be. To be married and move through life, because I sort of. I feel like, in essence, try to build bridges, and my wife breaks down walls, and so sometimes we can be a little bit at odds with each other in terms of what necessarily, what are the action steps that need to be taken? Not that there needs something to be done, but what is the actual thing that needs to be done? And it's really interesting for me because RAI will always illuminate a perspective that is not necessarily inherent within me and vice versa. And I think that in addendum to learning how to use our platforms, feeling compelled, really for me, just listening and trying to follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit and do what that spirit tells me to do. I also have a partner who is compelled in a different way. And we've learned, I think, and are still learning to appreciate the difference in terms of what needs to be done, knowing that something needs to be done.
But it's all endlessly fascinating for me because I'll be like, well, why don't we do this? And you're like, why don't we do that? And like, it's not a question of one or the other. Sometimes you got both of them need to happen at the same time.
[00:49:21] Juliana: We're going to begin to wrap up here. I have one more question I want to direct this to especially Ryan. Has there ever been a time when you ever felt totally safe and seen as a black woman on a project in Hollywood? I know you're a black woman, actor, producer, college educated, wife, mom, so many things.
And in this you might speak to the importance of being represented in a writer's room, the importance of having the proper makeup and hair for black women on the set.
Has there ever been a time when you felt really, really safe while working.
[00:50:12] Sterling: Amendment? Guess this is you.
[00:50:14] Ryan: You know what? I will say this.
I will say that I did it. I was not a series regular, but they offered me a recurring on a TV show called All Rise and starring Simone Missick. And I would have to say that on balance, that's probably one of the safest sets that I've felt. Seen that I felt safe and seen all of those categories. You mentioned writer's room, hair, makeup, trailer that wasn't broke down.
Like all of the things you listen, the trailers, My God.
Feeling like everybody on that show was working for a greater good. Like, yeah, no diva. Like, yeah, I would say that that checked more of the boxes that you just talked about than probably any show that I can think about in very, very recent memory.
[00:51:26] Sterling: It's a big question. It's a big question. And I think it's a really important one because we'll see lots of things. I've had conversations with other black female co stars and things and you take for granted. I think me as a man in particular enjoying male privilege and sort of feeling safe in most places like you have to advocate for yourself. But even in terms of advocacy, I as a man can advocate for myself in a different way than women can. Black women in particular and it be received and heard and appreciated, right? It may be. White men can do certain things, black men can do certain things, Black women. It's the amount of space and latitude you have to be fully self expressed and appreciated in the midst of that self expression. We still have a long way to go to go.
[00:52:23] Juliana: I would love the last question to be what do you want? The NAACP community, family, all of us and heck the world. What do you want? How do you want us to walk away feeling from we don't always agree podcast? Because I take it this is probably your baby. Between the two of you, it's something really special that you do together.
[00:52:46] Sterling: I'll go, I'll start that you don't have to agree to get along, that marriage is not always easy, but it is more often than not worth it. In our case, I believe incredibly worth it. And I say that for those people who decide to end it or what not, they may have very real reasons and legitimate reasons for doing so.
I hope that they test it as fully as possible before they decide to, you know, transition to something else. It's one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. And I think one of the things that inspired both Ryan and I is that, you know, folks will see us on the red carpet, see us doing these things and think that it's all fantastic and fabulous, et cetera. And it is fantastic. It is fabulous. It is at times arduous, it is often entertaining, right. But it is something that you have to continuously choose, choose on a day to day basis. The romantic feelings of love and amorousness or whatnot, they will go like this, they will go up and down. But my choice to be in partnership with Ryan, Michelle Bathe and her choice to be in partnership with me is something that we actively get a chance to decide, right? And if you want to give us goals for anything, then please give us goals for continuing to make that decision while also recognizing that we go through stuff just like everybody else.
[00:54:18] Juliana: That's good.
[00:54:24] Ryan: That's really good. Yeah, piggybacking on that. You know, the. I think the relationship goals hashtag goals has bothered both of us for different reasons, but similar reasons.
Because putting anyone or anybody up as goals for anything negates in some ways the story of how they got there.
So I think if there's anything that I could tell people, it's take the goals out of the thing and put story. So if it's relationship stories, hashtag relationship stories, and delve into the person or the people's story story, even if it's, you know, hashtag body goals, how did that body, what's the story behind that? Be interested and deeply curious about people's stories and not what you think is the end, because the end does not tell you anything, because the journey to get there is far more important. And then in that curiosity about other people's stories, be very curious about your own.
Be deeply, deeply curious about your own story and your own journey and not just the goal and the end that you're trying to achieve.
[00:55:47] Juliana: Hey, so that's a wrap for our debut episode of the Our Culture, Our Stories podcast. Thank you so much, Sterling and Ryan for being with us and thank you for tuning in. Please share this and more episodes with friends and family. Watch and listen wherever you stream your podcast like and subscribe to our channel and share your thoughts with us in the comments below. I'm Juliana J. Bolden with the naacp, and we'll see you next time with more of Our Culture, Our Stories.
Disclaimer: The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in the Our Culture Our Stories podcast are those of the individual hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policies or positions of the NAACP or any affiliated organizations.